Happy New Year Everyone!! (You too Pinky Baby ; )



P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM
April 6, 2010

Last edited by P-SPAN (2010-01-01 00:11:09)

Dolores and I just got back from our Christmas vacation in Palmer TN, her whole family still lives there (her mom has passed on) You can check.out pictues on my Facebook page under Sean's vacation.

Being without good cell service can actually be a piece of tranquility.

We wish you and your families a blessed and happy 2010.

I did manage to catch up on some reading from this and the Wareham Observer site,I guess I was hoping for some changes as the New Year began, but was met with the same thing, you all say something here and the argument, name calling, insults and private threatening emails are sent out from the Observer President.

Funny thing is you swore him off limits and he did the same for you.Yet it continues.

My suggestion would be to take away all the anonymous names, have all his folks sign up for a weekly chat session on this site. No moderator reqired and no one filtering the answers and deciding how long one would wait to have their answer or comment posted.I was going to suggest using the Observer site but then you would have to pay and have someone screening every post and then deciding when the answer or post gets published.

We could begin this week on Thursday night at 7pm to get the ball rolling.

No middleman man just citizens speaking their mind and having a discussion.

We can start the first one with no agenda or between now and then pick 3 or 4 topics. You all can decide.

I know the sticking point is the names, so if that's a deal breaker keep the names both sides use then now.

Let me know what you think. I will be here on Thursday 1/7 at 7pm. Please plan to join the discussion.

Be safe

Steve holmes

Last edited by searay240 (2010-01-04 06:14:47)

Steve : It's worth a try. It could be the antidote for the poisonous mood in Wareham. We didn't initiate the poisoning, but until we take steps to change the mood we are a part of a continuing problem.

Steve, Voter, Dick and Larry ~         I see your views as all being well meaning.  I see anger and name calling when people are so frustrated that all they can do is vent.   It isn't always a pretty sight but it comes with the territory of having the current BOS.  I know that is how I sometimes feel when I respond to a blogger.

Using our real names can be a danger for some of us.  I am not ashamed of what I blog, but I have to watch my back for multiple reasons.

I was at town meeting and there were some moans coming from the residents, but think back to what was said before the groans started and they had cause.  After all these "leaders" have done to our town, don't expect us to respond with silence.  A lot of the noise came from people around me, who in disbelief made comments to the persons next to them.  Now, multiply that by the large turnout and the moaning sounds like a freight train.  We have always heard a comment called out from the crowd and will probably still at every TM.

That feeling at TM is the same feeling some of us feel on this site.  When Wareham had better leaders (yes, we did!) you didn't here the noise at TM as we had this time.  That was because that group of selectmen were approachable.  They truly invested everything they had to give 110% to the town and residents saw this.  There were no behind the scenes secret meetings.  We need all of the current board removed (sorry, Mr. Cruz).  When this happens, the BIG CHANGE, you will see more people active in town government.  Civility will return on both sides.  We need selectmen to serve the town that will respect the voters and when that happens, they will have earned our respect.  Change of our BOS is a priority.

By: robertslager on 1/3/10
I think there are far few people on the hate site that you folks may realize. I think some of them use different screen names. I'm guessing there are about 10-15 of them, tops.


WHY THEN DEVOTE EVERY PAPER AND EVERY BREATH YOU TAKE WRITING ABOUT US? AND FOR CHRIST SAKES YOU MISSPELLED WIERD (SIC) OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN YOUR SUNDAY CHAT. ITS WEIRD BOBO.

You know why .. NO one would pay to come here.

Last edited by PinkPanther (2010-01-04 21:31:52)

Pspan,  how old are you?  Like 39?

Sorry, guess I got a little excited about Thursday.   Steve please do your due dilllies.

You must admit,  I have given you so much to work with.  Was that by mistake?  I don't think so.  :P   I do so very much appreciate your talents .   Thank you Darling.   Your so sweet you deserve to be pink!

Last edited by PinkPanther (2010-01-05 00:20:14)

PinkPanther wrote:

The biggest posters here are not from here.
The only thing worse than locals upset is for sure NON locals upset, those that have nothing to lose.

I think you just described a cowardly fabricator to a T :) Non-resident, non-voter...that says it all.

PinkPanther wrote:

The biggest posters here are not from here.
The only thing worse than locals upset is for sure NON locals upset, those that have nothing to lose.

More than half the home owners in this town - the more affluent, those with the most at stake - are seasonal residents and don't vote.

You're picking fights again and that's nice? Good bye pink. Don't come back. I'll know it's you.

Ditto, Bill.  Good deeds are not forgotten.

I really don't understand the rules here.  Searay/Steve suggests an open debate on this site, but you send Pink Panther away for making insinuations.  Meanwhile there are poster who say terrible personal things about our elected officials.  Okay, I am guilty of finding some of them amusing, but I understand why this is called the "hate blog".  I guess it is okay to insult public figures even on personal issues, but it is not okay to criticize anyone on our side?

So how can you have a discussion if you won't listen to the other side?  How do you expect them to listen to us? Until we start focusing on the issues we aren't going anywhere. 

And Searay/Steve as much as I appreciate your idea, people will not debate cleanly unless they are face to face.  That, more that anything else forces civility.  Although I would like to engage more of the other side here - rather than throwing them off everytime - since I won't pay for the Observer  this is the only way I get to know what their thought and justifications are.

Keep your friends close.  Keep your enemies closer.

Bluebell wrote:

I really don't understand the rules here.  Searay/Steve suggests an open debate on this site, but you send Pink Panther away for making insinuations.  Meanwhile there are poster who say terrible personal things about our elected officials.  Okay, I am guilty of finding some of them amusing, but I understand why this is called the "hate blog".  I guess it is okay to insult public figures even on personal issues, but it is not okay to criticize anyone on our side?

So how can you have a discussion if you won't listen to the other side?  How do you expect them to listen to us? Until we start focusing on the issues we aren't going anywhere. 

And Searay/Steve as much as I appreciate your idea, people will not debate cleanly unless they are face to face.  That, more that anything else forces civility.  Although I would like to engage more of the other side here - rather than throwing them off everytime - since I won't pay for the Observer  this is the only way I get to know what their thought and justifications are.

Keep your friends close.  Keep your enemies closer.

I think the rules are simple. If you would like to engage in debate, that can certainly be arranged. The problem with any sort of debate is that what is the purpose? I am sure there will be debates by the candidates running for office, but why does it matter if you and I debate? Some would have you believe that we are all hate bloggers, but I would caution you to take a gander at the Sunday night chat on another site. There isn't much difference. There is one difference, you have to PAY to comment there.

Our elected officials are fair game. If you review their history, you see mistake after mistake, poor public behavior, and a complete lack of fiscal responsibility. If you throw in some of the worst personnel decisions I have ever seen, why would they not be fair game. If you want to know what is behind the "great divide" in Wareham, you simply need to look at who is running the town. Leadership sets the tone and they certainly have done that!

Let me make it simple. If I present a fact, then please present a fact to dispute it or counter it. I am tired of political rhetoric. If you look at who is in charge of the town, you see the problem! Violations of open meeting law, emails and public displays of POOR behavior, legal bills that have crippled the town's finances, and ignoring the voice of the people (Town Meeting).

IndependentVoice wrote:

I'm with BlueBell.  What is the point of a "forum" if debate isn't part of the mix.  I personally like to read opinions regardless of what "side" they come from or what you might perceive the motivation to be. 

Larry..if you'd like to engage in debate, it can be "arranged"?? What does that mean?? And "the problem with any sort of debate is that what is the purpose"???  Really?  You are smarter than that.

Based on history, debate between both sides has simply not worked. I AM smarter than that. I dont' want to waste my tiime with speculation and twisted lies, I would rather discuss facts and truth. I am smart enough to know the difference between a debate and banging my head on a brick wall. Again, if you are going to insult my intelligence, use a real name.

I don't know anything about "PinkPanther" but I too was accused of being a "mole" and it sounds like paranoia more than anything else.  Debate is what a democracy is all about and to not support that fundamental right just because someone is perceived to have a different opinion....well, there you go right?  I just typed my way into the answer and I guess what you are saying.  Debate is not welcome on here right?

This is the difference. Some of us DO know enough about PinkPanther to make the claim she was a mole. One of the things that makes me smile is when someone attempts to "school" us on debate. Insults are not debate, you are aware of that?

Banning someone unless they have abused the forum in some way that is uttlerly offensive is ridiculous.  "Banning" someone may give you the feeling of power and control and a tool to shape the message that you are trying to relay but is the equivalent of not allowing someone entrance to town meeting because they may oppose the popular viewpoint.  It is the equivalent of not allowing someone to vote because they aren't voting YOUR way.

Thank you (again) for the lecture. So what you are saying is that if someone comes in here with a valid point, we must also be forced to listen to their insults? You really need to work on your argument. Perhaps we could use the town as an example? In the current administration, bully tactics and well placed appointments have given the elected officials a sense of power and control. HOWEVER, it is not the equivalent of banning someone from town meeting, which was proven when many that oppose their tactics and agenda showed up to vote. In the same way, we do not control the vote, it is an individual right to cast your ballot as you see fit. This is a website. It is open to discussion, but it is not open to someone who comes in here to insult and impress their distorted philosophy. That is especially true when they start their diatribe with, "I don't know anything about (insert name here)" . Again, you show how misguided you are by drawing conclusions from a lack of research and background.

The sad thing for me is that I fall on your side in regards to most issues in town and share your opinion, for the most part, on the performance of our elected officials.

Why is that sad? It is abundantly clear that many people in this town fall on "our side". This is a website owned and operated by one person or a group of people. If we choose to post here, we follow their rules. It is not the same as a democracy, and I would hope that someone appears to question intelligence would be aware of that.

Personally, that is two shots you have taken at my intelligence, so if any of the owners of this website decide you are wasting their time, then so be it. I would think you were intelligent enough to learned the first time, but apparently not.

The problem with this site is that your are mostly preaching to the choir.  You are assuming that everyone is as well versed in the issues as you are.  People who wander on this site because of the publicity given by Slager or the BOS who are looking for another viewpoint must be totally turned off but the "our way or get off" view.  Just because people voted for the current BOS or work on boards or committees now doesn't mean they agree with every decision or opinion voiced.
I agree with a majority of what is said here, but I definitely don't like the way it is said.

Do you know how much of this town is univolved and uncaring about the April election?  By squabbling about debate and painting dissenters as moles, trolls, turtles or whatever, you are only alienating those people we need to help change things in April.  There is a lot of middle ground in Wareham that needs to be covered.

Independent and bluebell forgot to say....tool... oh my head.... hateful...can't you face that...can't you accept that....can't you trust anyone....etc.,etc.,etc.

Once again, the decision was not ours to make. Bill made the call, and he has a right to do so, for whatever reason he wants. He made this site possible (as far as I know)..
Is it okay for people to disagree or agree with his decision? Sure.

IV, you wrote:
"It simply doesn't reflect very well on the purpose of this forum; Which I thought was to present facts about the issues, express opinions about the issues and to provide a consolidated, "one-stop shopping resource" of information on the issues as presented and discussed by its' participants."

Based on that..Did Pinky (or her "banned" of brothers) "provide a consolidated, "one-stop shopping resource" of information on the issues"?? I don't think so. Maybe the closest that I read was Ms Lilly, in that regard, but she's a tin foil hatter fer shur ; )

If you get a chance to read through one of their Sunday night chats, you'll find that they are guilty of many of the things they claim about us here. Except, while our focus is on the elected officials (fair game)..and Ragman (he brings it on himself)..Their focus is on private citizen's..and while much of what we discuss is a matter of public record (and can be verified)..they muddle around in hearsay and often, perpetuated lies.

My one cent (1/2 price Thursday)

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM
April 6, 2010

Last edited by P-SPAN (2010-01-07 17:45:16)

IndependentVoice wrote:

Larry -  Insult your intelligence?  I actually said "you are smarter than that".  I state my opinion and somehow I'm insulting you.  I'm being critical no doubt but in no way did I insult your intelligence.  Then if someone is critical, they are a mole or have some super secret agenda.

It is an insult to be critical while talking down to someone, which you did. I didn't call you a mole, but I do think you have an agenda that isn't entirely supportive.

Unless you hand out secret passwords, any website - especially one that allows for the posting of comments in a very public and open way - is subject to a variety of opinions; many that you might not like.  This is NOT someone's house and that's the difference.  Public issues are discussed on this site in a very public way and while I don't always agree with some of the personal attacks that I have read on this site, you certainly don't have to "wipe your feet" when you come onto this forum.  Noone is "invited", you simply walk in the door.

This IS someone's house. We are all guests here. We play the rules that are made by the OWNER if this site. I don't always agree with everything said, but I have managed to NOT get banned. I don't recall coming in here calling posters name, which you did. If you don't agree with the personal attacks, then why start out by attacking other posters? You can't have it both ways. You really have this superiority complex. You seem to be able to judge education, intelligence and assume you can say what you want before crticizing others for the same actions.

Sure, you can ban who you want for whatever reason you deem appropriate - it is your site.  It simply doesn't reflect very well on the purpose of this forum; which I thought was to present facts about the issues, express opinions about the issues and to provide a consolidated, "one-stop shopping resource" of information on the issues as presented and discussed by its' participants.

I just want to make this clear. It isn't MY site. I am a guest here, just like you. Again, you want to get pompous. The reason this site was started is because of the lies and twisted politcal spin that was being fed to the people of Wareham. There are many facts that have been "presented" on here. I'm not sure debate was the original goal, but there have also been several debates on here. Again, if you want to discuss something with the posters on here, don't start with insults to the posters and taking the "arrogant" position.

I don't quite understand this concept of "moles".  Perhaps you do know who some of the people are but I can tell you for a fact that I was accused of being a mole and it couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.  Besides, what are you afraid of?  Is someone who flat disagrees with you labeled a mole?  Let's say "moles" as you define them do exist and participate on this forum?  How does that hurt?  Why the paranoia?

Again, I have no problem with you disagreeing, I have a problem with your use of personal attacks and then playing innocent. You need to move off the whole mole thing and start discussing issues. Me thinks you protest too much!

By the way Larry, I'm very well aware that insults do not constitute debate.  In fact, this is something I've railed about on this site since I first started posting.  However, simply disagreeing or presenting a different idea is NOT an insult....THAT is debate.

Again, you came in here slinging insults, so step off the pedestal.

If PinkPanther is "mole", I don't really care and I don't know why you do.  Unless PinkPanther is spreading a computer virus or hijacking the site, what is to be afraid of?  What is the harm??

I guess I will just say, I don't care if Pink is a mole, but i certainly don't want to listen to her dribble. I didn't make the decision to ban her, so take that  up with management. it always amazes me when someone starts discussing computer viruses and how they are propagated. Do you have a background in IT? If so, perhaps you can enlighten me on how this works?

Look, I have used the ignore button before. If i think someone is just motor mouthing and not truly adding thing to the discussion, I will put them on ignore. I don't make the decision on banning, but IF I did, I would give people a chance and then if they are here just to twist and spin, I would likely ask them to support their statements or hit the road.

I certainly would not come in calling posters names or making pompous statements about them, like you did :)

Yes...it is Bill's house. He is wise enough who to invite in. He is wiser to know who to entertain for any extended period of time.
Once the guest becomes a bore, or drunk, arrogant, opinionated without conversation, negative, convoluted and obnoxious, he graciously escorts them out and asks them never to darken his door again.
He was well brought up.
Very nice...very polite.
He even says goodbye.

Bill has a long history and experience in the website business. He has created this site and many post / read information here. The exchange of ideas and the back and forth on issues, along with the addition of the videos of meetings, and documents make this a good resource for people that want to get information.

Everyone will not agree on every issue or topic, nor should that be expected. I think a healthy discussion on issues, and consideration of all opinions make the solutions stronger and better.

Consider this statement if you would:

We are a seaside community that has no money, and no public plan to rectify that situation.


We can go back and forth assigning blame, one side may end up being right, and 12 - 24 months from now we will still be in receivership.

As long as there are distractions.....this issue continues to remain publicy silent. I know there are many of you working on various plans and possible solutions, but at some point we need to publicly turn our attention to our Town Finances.

We have visited Dan's area in Florida, which is also a seaside community. The revenue we saw being generated there, even though it was off season was quite impressive. There were many attractive spots to visit and spend dollars.

searay240 wrote:

We have visited Dan's area in Florida, which is also a seaside community. The revenue we saw being generated there, even though it was off season was quite impressive. There were many attractive spots to visit and spend dollars.

good point steve.. there are soooo many small store fronts that are empty.. the new mall is nice but its the small businesses that need help to thrive.. also the hotel ADM is proposing is great..

born, larry has said that often these past few weeks.. his sister lives in FL..

Sorry I am late...my wife and I were practicing on the Wii Mario game. It is nostalgic that we used to play into the wee hours of the morning while the boys slept in their bunk beds.
Yes...we did have some quick meetings, but that was because everyone was knowledgeable about the issues before us and were informed and up to date abut everything that came before us...shame on you if you are not...

danoconnell wrote:

Sorry I am late...my wife and I were practicing on the Wii Mario game. It is nostalgic that we used to play into the wee hours of the morning while the boys slept in their bunk beds.
Yes...we did have some quick meetings, but that was because everyone was knowledgeable about the issues before us and were informed and up to date abut everything that came before us...shame on you if you are not...

GASP!!!! what a concept reading and being prepared for a meeting... dan want to come up and do a lecture??

I don't want to hear about how "chilly" it is/was in FLA...we could ice skate to work!!
Buy a sweater!!

LM..I'm a football fan (Pro)..and what you wrote reads like Chinese to me..BCS, ahh..

Steve..great point on the need for economic develpment in Town. I hope we see the plans ADM have proposed start to come to fruition, as well as Bay Pointe (now that they can bring proposals up for consideration). Wareham's a great destination, not just a "drive thru"

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM
April 6, 2010

I recently sat down with a major local business. I will leave his name out. While many in the industry saw difficulties over the past 18 months, their strategy was to cut back, skim operations, and let employees go. Some of those businesses today have closed.

This particular gentleman, took a different approach, he actually expanded services, increased operations, and kept moving forward. His recent numbers prove that even in this difficult economy it is possible to be successul, with the right attitude and PLAN.

Recently we watched a combined group of BOS, School, and Finance Committees meet.  I spoke with Bruce after the meeting and commended him on keeping the meeting on track and civil.  I also suggested this type of meeting take place more often.

If you look at the list of suggestions, apparently devloped by our former TA. Most of the suggestions centered on cutting people, services, and departments. If you compare this to the above scenario of the local business, we may want to consider a different path.

LIZdaGNOME wrote:

pspan that my point exactly tourists and others pit stop here gas, coffee, quick bite to eat... we only have 1 hotel that isnt on the police logs every week and it is small.. get ppl to stay the night enjoy the beaches the shops..

Play a couple of rounds of golf, take the kids to Water Wizz, eat all over the place, etc., etc.. Hey, just give them someplace to get away from all the Cape traffic.

Steve, who's that guy?? Tell him to fill out his Selectman candidate papers!!!

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM
April 6, 2010

bornofwareham wrote:

LIZdaGNOME wrote:

born, larry has said that often these past few weeks.. his sister lives in FL..

We can stay two weeks at Dan's and then two weeks at Larry's sisters.

Works for me!

thats cool with me.. just dont bring mama any donuts..

Steve,
Another example of how leadership is the key. The industry I am sufferred a great market drop at the end of 2008 and in the 1st quarter of 2009. It drove many of the companies we do business with into bankruptcy and consolidation. Our management team was prepared for the market fallout and not only managed to negotiate the bad times, but we just completed a major capital project that will not only drive revenue but position our company to take advantage of the current market conditions (which are vastly improved). If I don't preach it enough, LEADERSHIP, LEADERSHIP, LEADERSHIP! Our town needs business professionals that have demostrated the key points:
1. Fiscal responsibility
2. Accountability
3. Excellent personnel skills

Well...you have a very large cash flow into the Town's coffers without responsibility to the running of the operation except for the proper legal activities and the safe and clean conditions of the vendor.
Lots of money is available, but, of course, it is summer money and as long as you know that you can have it run properly and profitably.
The Cafe on the Beach does well all year round, but the locals go there after the "Snow birds" leave in April. Kind of like you all when the "Seagulls" go home in September.
Parking can always be resolved. Steve also saw the trolley that we have that takes anyone for free all over the Islands from one end of the County to the other end of the Island.
People park their cars in motels or hotels they are staying at, or at public access spaces, hop on the trolley and ride anywhere they want for free all day long.
Tourist taxes pays for the operation and many people are employed because of the work available for drivers and maintenance people.