#1 2010-09-19 14:58:40
what is up with this charter change? wareham and most towns use the guide called town meeting time since roberts rules of order doesn't cover some things about town meeting. before I start complaining about this I would like to know the reasoning. does anyone else wonder if this change would be there if donahue was still moderator? this seems to restrict the moderator's power. so what is wrong with town meeting time?
ARTICLE 73 - TO AMEND TOWN BYLAWS – THE RULES THAT GOVERN TOWN MEETING
To see if the Town will vote to amend the By-laws of the Town of Wareham, Division I, Article I, Town Meetings, Section Five, which reads:
“The duties of the Moderator and the government of the town meeting, not specially provided for by law, shall be determined by the rules of practice contained in Robert’s Rules of Order Revised (Seventy-Fifth Anniversary Edition) and Town Meeting Time, so far as they are adapted to the conditions and powers of the town..”
CHANGE TO:
“The duties of the Moderator and the government of the town meeting, not specially provided for by law, shall be determined by the rules of practice contained in Robert’s Rules of Order (latest edition), so far as it is adapted to the conditions and powers of the town.”
or to do or act in any manner relative thereto.
Inserted by the Board of Selectmen at the request of the Town Clerk
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#2 2010-09-19 16:57:52
Someone please put this in plain English for me. Where would this leave us and the moderator and town meeting?
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#3 2010-09-19 17:33:51
To be honest, the Moderator would have more control and power to conduct business under Robert's Rules, as well as the average attendee of Town Meeting that is offered leeway under Robert's.
I never heard of Town Meeting Time...what is it...a book?
History was that we always operated under Robert's Rules of Order...I'd like to know when it changed, and why...
Almost every fraternal, Veterans, and other organizations uses Robert's Rules of Order.
I have always liked it because it is simple in format (comparatively) and easily understood by non lawyers. It is a very good device for laymen.
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#4 2010-09-19 18:05:45
found this online under town meeting time.
Parliamentary Law
Town meetings serve as the legislative component of local government in many communities throughout New England. Town meetings operate in accordance with rules of procedure established by general laws, local bylaws, and local customs and traditions. As part of their bylaws, many towns reference a standard parliamentary handbook to provide for most of their rules of procedure. Use of a standard handbook to supplement a few local rules of procedure defined in bylaws provides participants in town meeting with a complete framework that all can readily learn and understand.
The Massachusetts Moderators Association first published in 1962 a handbook of parliamentary law that focuses especially on the operation of those legislative bodies described, in very concise language, as town meetings. The bibliographic information for the current version of this standard parliamentary handbook is:
Johnson, Richard B.; Trustman, Benjamin A.; and Wadsworth, Charles Y. Town Meeting Time: A Handbook of Parliamentary Law, 3rd ed. Boston: Massachusetts Moderators Association, 2001.
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#5 2010-09-19 19:50:39
I don't know if it even looks like a conflict. From what I read, the Town Meeting Time is more of a case law type document....don't see how it could hurt or help, to be honest.
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#6 2010-09-19 20:51:15
I have heard from an authority that the Town Meeting Time is an important source of information, and helps to understand Robert's Rules by precedent and by case. It appears to be a necessity for any elected Moderator to refer to, in that it has been accepted as the authority, based on cases and precedent, by the Moderators throughout the Commonwealth.
Anything to help the Moderator run a smooth, efficient, and timely Town Meeting should be included. It appears to be somewhat arbitrary as to the reasons for the change.
Since no-one, to my knowledge, from the CRC has discussed ANY articles with the public, it might be an interesting question to ask. Just when is the CRC scheduled to hold public hearings on their proposed changes?
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#7 2010-09-19 21:03:13
Town Meeting Time has served towns in New England that have an Open Town Meeting very well. It explains town meeting process in detail, gives procedures appropriate for town meetings (often different from Robert's Rules of Order), explains potential pitfalls, and provides historical context. Town meetings would be a disaster without it. For one thing, although there would be warrants and articles as required by the charter, we would lose the requirement that no subject could be discussed unless within the scope of a warrant article. It also requires all articles to be considered before the meeting is dissolved. There are many other consequences but you have to go through Town Meeting Time and Robert's section by section to determine the differences in detail.
This change is a very bad idea in my opinion. I hope it was just an oversight.
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#8 2010-09-19 22:08:56
I don't think anything the CRC did was an oversight. I think it was well thought out, planned, and kept from the public.
I think it is a sham.
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#9 2010-09-20 14:03:50
good discussion. but I'm still confused as to why the deletion of town meeting time. donahue used it. the k and p lawyers refer to it when asked for advice. most town meeting moderators in mass use it. what is the logic behind this? an oversight in that it was accidentally deleted or some way to get back at the new moderator for beating the old guard. guess we will have to wait for town meeting to hear their rationale.
another question. why do we need to change the name from wareham home rule charter to wareham charter? what's the big deal?
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#10 2010-09-20 14:32:05
Damn good questions, watch...does anyone have any answers?
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#11 2010-09-20 15:37:31
The term Home Rule Charter is used in applicable Massachusetts General Law and Amendments to the Massachusetts Constitution and should therefore not be removed. Doing so is not only confusing to those familiar with municipal law, but it also creates a legal ambiguity for any references that use the term Home Rule Charter. Towns that have a Home Rule Charter have particular privileges and responsibilities under the law. Of particular importance is PART I ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT; TITLE VII CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS; CHAPTER 43B HOME RULE PROCEDURES
I suggest that instead of changing the name, that the term “Wareham Charter” be allowed as an equivalent alternative name.
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#12 2010-09-20 15:38:45
Good compromise, Mr. Onset.
Still begs the question: why the change?
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#13 2010-09-23 13:12:07
watchtower wrote:
another question. why do we need to change the name from wareham home rule charter to wareham charter? what's the big deal?
I was told by someone who heard a member of the CRC say that they changed the name because they thought it sounded better. Please let's not spend 20 minutes at town meeting discussing this name change article. Let's just vote it down immediately. Move the question asap. Talk about wasting our time.
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#14 2010-10-06 10:19:24
last night alan slavin gave the reason for getting rid of town meeting time as it was too vague in some areas. a friends of mine who was a moderator in another town told me that town meeting time actually covers stuff that isn't in robert's. that is why most moderators in the state use the combination of the two.
the presentation by slavin was confusing. if article x doesn't pass then ariticle y and z are moot. what a mess.
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