Amen!

The mentality of this BOS and other elected officials, together with the incompetence of the ITA, is very much why the operations of our community is at it's worse ever. 
The only thing that at least protected one department head (the chief) from their assault was the civil service status, which must have frustrated them thus causing the announcement for a warrant article to change it.  I can't speak to the relationship that the department members had with the chief but I can suspect it was in part the cause for the audit; to somehow find "cause" to remove him under the civil service protection. 
It's all about control under this leadership. So regardless of the language in the Charter, which strictly prohibits the interference with operations, together with a very weak ITA who very much needs a pay check, he won't do or say anything other than what he's told. 
They have violated EVERY governing document within their elected jurisdiction and the only way to change that is a recall or to replace them upon the expiration of their terms. 
I have to confess, with all that has transpired since our community meeting, I'm concerned with how much more damage THEY will cause OUR community.

"We are not alone....."

Here's  another "google game":
This time you have to type in four words:

         police chief  civil service

Pages and pages of squabbles like ours from coast to coast........

Found this on the Police Union website:  http://www.warehampoliceunion.com/10001.html

I see there is more to come.

Last edited by commonsense (2009-09-13 19:40:13)

Keep in mind, when was it, a year or two or so ago, Brockton Brenda announced she'd discovered something from the 1930's that meant the Chief was not civil service, they all latched onto it, ranted and raved the Chief was not a strong chief, they could fire him anytime they want blah blah blah, then all of a sudden they got quiet about it, never mentioned a word, as if a lawyer told them fat chance it'll never work....they've been trying to put their own lackey chief into power for a long time so they can all be wannabe cops and run the police department.

commonsense wrote:

Found this on the Police Union website:  http://www.warehampoliceunion.com/10001.html

I see there is more to come.

Also, what was the actual revenue that parking tickets generated last year?

That's a good question. We should also know how many of the Crime Watch patrol are authorized to write tickets, how many they wrote, how many were contested in court, their disposition and whether they were reimbursed for their court appearances.

The town did in fact follow proper procedure in1938 according to what the law was at that time. The law was later changed, but that does not affect the way the action was taken in 1938.  It cost me nothing but a little time to do my homework.


THATS RIGHT BUT IT DID COST YOU THE TAXPAYERS A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS TO HAVE KOPELMAN AND PAGE RESEARCH THIS AFTER BRENDA'S RESEARCH. THANKS BRENDA!

Good for Claire Smith and her research.
Brilliant lady!

Letter: Wareham Police Union asks voters to keep chief's position under Civil Service

PShooter

cap c...have you received my PMs'?
I would like to hear from you :)

Who gives a crap about North Andover, Mass.?
Except someone from there.
It is an insult for the Selectmen of another Town to imply that the Town of Wareham does not have one SINGLE person that qualifies to be Chief of Police.
What a wonderful time to be a Police Officer in Wareham, huh?
Let me think...now...what is the word..oh, gosh...I almost have it...gee...of yeah...BULLSHIT!!

The town of Wareham is lucky they picked Paul Stanley as their stand in. He seems to be righting numerous wrongs.  He'd make a great permanent chief.  These guys are working on a skeleton budget and are seriously under manned.   How long will it be before they cut his legs out from under him...

The Wareham POLICE CHIEF is under the Strong Chief Statue. He is incharge of the Budget, manpower and equipment. Any order by the Chief of Police can not be remanded by the Selectman. It is this statue that gives him the autonomy to do the job, the Department of Personnel Administration replaces Civil Service. There are 5 chiefs from the Mass. Police Chief Association who assists with the Department of Personel Administrator, the head cheese is in an acting position.

Hypothetical:
A long serving Police Officer in Wareham achieves, after many years on the job and formal education, a high ranking status on the Department.
There is an opening for Chief. This man has taken, and passed, the Chief's exam, and is fully qualified to be the Chief of Police of Wareham.
He was a street cop and worked his way up. He is respected by his peers. He is an educator, lecturer and writer. He understands cops, and he understands administration. He has demonstrated many times over in his career that he is brave, well educated, competent and above reproach.
The Board of Selectmen offer him a term of office of 2 and a half years as Chief of Police.
Why?
He is insulted and confused.
Why?
He refuses the offer.
Why?
Would he have taken the job as a non-Civil Service Chief with a contract?
Probably not. He has already seen what contracts that are broken are for:  toilet paper.
His only protection was Civil Service.
But..the biggest question is... why?
Why 2 and a half years?
He was smart not to accept the position. He knows what lurks behind the scenes, he has seen it many times in his career.
He should think about only one thing: WHY?
Keep the Civil Service Chief of Police.
Don't insult anyone else.
Don't insult the nearly 50 men and women that are qualified to be the Chief of Police by saying...you are not good enough.
How many cops on the Wareham Police Department took the Chief of Police's test?
How many passed?
Pick one!
It's not brain surgery.

I understand what you are saying. I am dismayed that the test hasn't been called for. Now is the time for the BOS to call for the test and ultimately get the list of qualified candidates.
The BOS should have a little foresight in the event the Town Meeting doesn't go along with their plan to remove the Chief from Civil Service.
Thank you OCrush for the information.

Capt C. If a test was called for it would be open not only to the Lieutenants but also  all sergeants. If they caould not get enough supervisors to take the test at 250 dollars it woulod be open to the patrol people also.

Capt. C, So what you are telling me is that Lt. Bliss will be one of the main people considered for the chief's position if we stay in CS?  WOW.

Wow Is Right !!  It Is Amazing What The Department Has Turned Into. This Bos Has Created An Environment That Has The Officers All Jocking For Position Throughout The Department. It Is Absolutely Horrible. These Men And Woman Depend On Each Other On The Street And Now There Is Such Animosity And Positioning The Loyalty And Brotherhood Is Completely Gone And Each Officer Is Out For Themselves.  There Are Three Or Four Officers / Sergeant That Are Totally Out Of Control And Running Wild.  These Of Course Are Officers That Have Had Issues Their Entire Time With The Pd.  They Think That Now The Evil Tom Joyce Is Gone All There Troubles Are Gone. They Are Still Who They Are And Will Always Be, Just Wait And Watch.  My Guess Is That Mr. Ocrush Is Probably The Most Hated Sergeant In The Department That Happens To Be Number One On The Lt. List.  It Is Amusing Since He Has Probably Been Behind The Scenes For Years Feeding The Bos False Information And Was Probably Very Involved In The False Information That Was Used To Fire Lt. Bliss. It Is Just To Much Of A Coincidence That Ocrush Only Pops Up When It Is Time To  Bad Mouth Lt. Wallace Or Lt. Bliss And From What I Hear He Still Is On A Daily Basis Just So Desperately Trying To Get There Jobs. He Has No Shame!!!! Ask Any Member Of The Department In Private And You Will Get The Same Response From 95% But They Wont Say It Publicly Because They Are Afraid Of Retaliation And They Have To Work For And With Him.  Just Ask, It Is Very Well Known. It Is Awful What Some People Will Do To Ahead, If They Only Just Concentrated On Working Hard And Getting Educated Then None Of This Other Horrible Nonsense Would Be Needed.

OCrush...It seems as though your former home town is in the majority...I just read on another website that 75% of the rest of the commonwealth does not require CS...that's a substantial percentage...is the Lt. Bliss you referred to the one that was fired?  I would have to second that WOW if that is true...

CaptC...is it true that only the top 3 scoring candidates are considered?

onboard19...when you said "CS is to protect the people from leaders [who] will punish people who disagree with them", did you mean to say "chief" instead of "people"?  This is obviously a "learning" discussion...what type of situations will CS protect us (citizens) from leaders punishing us for disagreeing with them? 

Another point for discussion...if we don't agree with amount of power a Mayor possess, why aren't we concerned with the power a "strong chief" wields?

I am sure you don't have to worry about Lt. Bliss as your next chief.  After he is fully reinstated ( very soon) by the civil service commission for the political, personal, and false accusation that were made against him, he would surly not want any part of being chief in this crazy town.  When his decision does come out it will be jaw dropping and will show the exact reason you don't take the Chief out of civil service and allow lunatics like this BOS and the puppet ITA to make these decisions like they did with Bliss.

Jet,  So much hate. I can assure you that I am not employed with you at the police department. I remain anonymous just as you do. I only wanted to provide info.

No the the power crazed BOS went  around and against the chief, MCcauliffe , and Town council to act on there plan of attack with a hired gun. U are still spreading mis information about Bliss, and as you will see he is allowed to have a side business and did nothing wrong. He is an american and has the same rights as you and others in town. Being a police officer you don't give up your rights.  Thats why we need a strong Chief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen to godhelp.

MsLilly - I gave reasons please reread.

In my opinion
We need a strong chief to protect the job from the out of control selectmen.
We do not have enough research to kill a form of government that has served us so well for so many years. Yes the selectmen have given us a bad taste in our mouths. However one does not toss out the baby with the bath water. Lets change the selectmen and see how well the town does.
The information on Westfield is very sketchy and controversial. I believe there are alternatives.

People please get all the information you can and make the best decision. When in doubt wait and get more information. These questions can wait until the next town meeting.

I do not wish to continue to feed Mslilly and friends. I believe in free speech and allowing people to differ in their opinions. Again I urge everyone to make informed decisions.

onboard19 wrote:

I do not wish to continue to feed Mslilly and friends. I believe in free speech and allowing people to differ in their opinions. Again I urge everyone to make informed decisions.

Even though you no longer wish to contribute to my "feeding" of information, your response was appreciated.  I should have read through the threads to find out if you had already stated what you had based your decisions on.  I took the easier route...

I agree with you...no Mayor

Still don't know enough about pros/cons of Civil Service to make a decision...

And I'm leaning on not voting for Westfield unless someone has any reason why we shouldn't look at improving/enlarging the housing we already have...

Under CS the top three would be considered for the position. Number 4 could be reached if the appointing authority can justify why. Experience and dedication to the town means nothing. Does the top mark mean that is the best qualified candidate? I honestly believe that mark and the use of the Assessment Procedure
is warranted. Also another way  is to take another CS Chief as a lateral tansfer.

Good point, capt c...appoint a civil Service Chief pending the examination for Chief to be taken by all qualified.
The new Chief would be Civil Service but with a short term contract.
At the end of the process of testing, the candidates for Chief would be interviewed, assessed, etc. by the Board of Selectmen and hopefully an outside committee appointed for that process only.
Former Police Officers, business people and leaders of the community could be appointed to the Commission.
The process would be fair and equitable, and would give local cops the opportunity of at least being considered.

Some context.

The selection process that installed Tom Joyce as chief 20 some odd years ago was equally brutal.

At least now, the combantants are publicly talking to each other. Sort of.

I agree bornof..We have every right to express ourselves the way we do. I suggest starting a forum of your own where anonymity is forbidden.

I give respect, and expect it back. We all have experience to draw from, no ones more relevant than the next.
We each choose to fight the battles in our own ways. Who's to say what someone does that you're unaware of, or which is more effective.

I welcome and value your experience and opinion, CaptC, please return the courtesy.  There are reasons I, personally, prefer to remain "undercover". Mostly because in large part, it's irrelevant to what I've been trying to do. If you'd like to contact me through email or private message, I'll let you know who I am (trust me, you never heard of me). But if it'll legitimize my input, in your eyes, I have no problem with it.

pshooter59@yahoo.com

PShooter

Last edited by PShooter (2009-09-27 23:13:08)

OCrush wrote:

Jet,  So much hate. I can assure you that I am not employed with you at the police department. I remain anonymous just as you do. I only wanted to provide info.

Yup!  Okay!  Right!  Really!     I remember a post from you a while back that was down right nasty.  "so much hate".

capt c wrote:

I agree that you must blame the BOS for this problem. One of the most important thing a boss should do is to train someone to fill in during his absence. It is important that the Town Administrator ensures this is being done to keep the organization  running smoothly and the transition less stressful. Everyone should know what the organization's goals and objective are. Any time a decision is made that is personal the good of the organization will suffer.

I believe all the time that Lt. Wallace has put in under Chief Joyce was his training.  Lt. Wallace has been doing chief Joyce's work for years and almost everyone knows it.  The only thing is that bottom line -Joyce had the final say.  If the ITA had let Lt. Wallace continue as acting chief for the next year, then the organization would have been kept running smoothly with little to no stress.  By bringing in a P.T. Chief from 80 miles away is not for the good of the organization.