Did you also notice his comments to the effect of (paraphrasing): This needs to go before TM - now people can vote it down, though I can't imagine why anybody would want to vote down affordable housing for seniors, but that's they're right, though I can't imagine why anybody would do that....

It's amazing that he's trying to frame it such that if you think seniors should have affordable housing, you should definitely vote for THIS housing project.  It's like "why do you hate the seniors?  why wouldn't you want them to have this housing?"  Pure political spin

casual,
You noticed like I did, which is why I noted the he's trying to embarrass us into voting favorably by suggesting that there is no way anyone could oppose affordable housing for seniors.
newbee,
Nice to see you back.  The site proposed is in west Wareham off of Charlotte
Furnace Rd out behind Cumberland Farms.

did they ever present the proposal for adding on to or rebuilding Agawam? I know someone came up with a plan has anyone ever seen it?

Just got in, mom's water heater let go.

Missed the meeting but will watch the tape shortly.

I mentioned it before and I will say it again, great idea however no planning, they are spending money, getting applications from the state,paying consultants,one bidder,ready to sign contracts and they do not have the rights to use the land.

At town meeting we will find out exactly how much they have spent and what contracts they have signed, and the story line will be you must vote for this because of the money already spent and the contracts signed. If you don't we will have wasted the money and will be sued for breach of contracts.

This should have been brought to town meeting last April and they may have had our permission to move forward.

So they are out developing a project with no authority.and it appears they will now use putting elderly out in the street to die to guilt the member to a yes vote.

Well that strategy may work for a simple majority but they require a two thirds vote not that easy to get unless....oh ya that's right the moderator
Has nobmath skills

Al I can say is we better stay on top of this one. Bob I would be happy to chair a few folks from the team an sink our teeth into this and dig up someanswers

Steve

All one has to do is to revisit the Town Meeting in 1977(? DATE?...my recollection of the year..I am not positive) when the land use restrictions were imposed.
Speak to people who actually attended those Town Meetings and Selectmen that were in office then.
From one Selectman to you: The intention of the preservation of the land for the stated purposes was to protect the environment and offer a lifetime commitment to future generations and would prohibit housing developments or other projects by special interest groups.
The land is for THE PEOPLE!!!

I have heard that "we need affordable housing for seniors" seems like forever. Does anyone have any actual data? Would someone please post the data here so we can all take a look at it?

Thank you

Until we see some data we will never understand the real need. Who, currently living in town, will move there? Will Pacewicz move there? Will Alan Slavin move in? Will the Monahans move? Maybe the town clerk? Who and how many of actual town residents would move? Will we end up with another housing project that has to attract more people from the outside? Is this another Sweet Brucie real estate deal? We all know who benefited from the last one he pushed so hard for. It certainly wasn't the town. We paid dearly for it.

I don't know anything about construction, but doesn't 30 million dollars sound like a lot of money to build 180 units? Most of which would be low income, seems  a little high.

SOMEONE SAID IT WHY WOULD WE TRUST BRUCE , HIS NEW FAVORITE PROJECT WEST FIELD LOOK AT HIS PREVIOUS PROJECT   THE SWIFT BEACH LAND TAKEING AND LOOK HOW HE SCREWED IT UP AND COST WAREHAM BIG TIME ,IF THE PROJECT IS A GOOD ONE THEN WE WILL DO IT LATTER , I JUST DONT TRUST BRUCE AND HIS CREW NOT TO SCREW IT UP.   VOTE IT DOWN, PERIOD.

If you look at the last meeting when Bruce was absent.

Cronan said that this vote could be taken in April after all the facts were gathered.

The other selectmen all sat there not knowing what to do or say.it appears Bruce is the only one in the know.

Don't take my word for it watch the tape.

They flawed the RFP maybe intentionally....I smell something

It's a shame to watch them do this to what should be a worthwhile project.

ihateliz wrote:

swifts beach fiasco brought to you    courtsey of bruce cost 2 million    wareham taxpapers screwed out of 2 million,  PLEASE WE DONT NEED A 30 MILLION FIASCO THE WESTFILD PROJECT  THE SEQUEL BROUGHT TO YOU BY  THE SELF SERVING BRUCE.

also there is the OCEANSIDE NAME CHANGE to honor the family pizza joint...

I haven't heard if this has already been addressed, but have the BOS bothered to look into a restriction that Wareham seniors would get first dibs on the housing?  If they don't have that, then this is basically a project to help the greater South Shore area seniors, which I suppose is a nice thing to do, but why don't we leave it to their towns to help them and we'll take care of ours.

(I ask playing devil's advocate because I'm not even sure if a Wareham senior only restriction would be legal.)

Ham… I think what you can do is give preference to Wareham seniors. At the meeting Pam mentioned there were 267 seniors on the waiting list for low income housing. I don’t think all of the seniors are from Wareham. I think when a unit becomes available someone from Wareham is given preference over someone who isn’t from Wareham.
I know when they put the senior housing in Mattapoisett (this was a long time ago) I called for info for my mom. I was told she could go on the list, but a Mattapoisett resident would always be able to jump ahead of her on the list.

This is what I mean about getting the real numbers. How many seniors from Wareham need low income housing?

I went back and reviewed the tape. Our COA Director reports that that avg client makes 800 per month. Based on affordable housing guideline at 30 percent the rent would be 240. Not ONE apartment is at 240 or below:

182 units

25 at 258
14 at 394
25 at 407
114 at 841
4 at 1000

So there you have it, yes Marcia states an avg so there are probably many below the 800 per month that can never afforf these rents.

We all know what happens next, they can fill them with seniors so that start filling with section 8. I have personal experience with renting to section 8 and it ain't pretty.

there has been no fact gathering or research done on this project.

Lools like Marcia will be looking for a new job her facts made the board look like fools. Not one avg senior can afford the rent

searay... If the project  guidelines say senior housing how can they switch to s section 8? Wouldn't there be an age requirement? I still think someone should revisit rebuilding Agawam. We have already paid a consultant for those plans it would be nice to see what they are and maybe use Agawam as an alternative to Westfield. Maybe you could review the tape. At this last meeting the selectman asked Pam how many new units they could add to Agawam.I think Pam said the Agawam plan would add 60 units, but I'm not sure if that was if they made it a 2 level or 3 level.

I don't know if there is a specific "law" that states only elderly. It is my understanding they can be given preference.

The developer is on the line financially to fill 182 units. If the COA Directors information is correct and given her position I do not doubt her information, then the current  group of seniors needing the affordable housing cannot afford these rents.

Point in case brought up by Marcia, the downtown condos were supposed to be 55+ housing, but at the sales prices of the units 55+ could not afford the mortgage and the condo fees, so a developer is not going to leave these units unfilled and unsold due to an age preference.

We do need to look into this, because the folks in West Wareham could end up with a housing project in their back yard not affordable senior apartments.

Again I state for the record I AM IN FAVOR OF SENIOR HOUSING they are a valuable part of our community and our heratage and we should do all we can do to help them in their golden retirement years. But this Westfield project is not the answer.

And yes I beleive the number at Agawam was 60.

Marcia's numbers during her first presentation to the BOS were laughable.  She has never even looked at statistics from the census or Mass. Elderly Services. The BOS don't understand statistics about the town's citizens either, and they did not challenge her.  Marcia did not do much better this time.  If the average senior made $800 a month-that is $9600 a year.  The federal poverty level for a single person is $10,830.   All Wareham seniors are not below the poverty level- it varies by area of town- but on average, a little over 10% of elderly are below  the poverty line. There are a lot of seniors who exist at very low income levels, but there is no way to determine if they would be interested in elderly housing.

My point has been that you cannot just say "I am opposed to Westfield"  The BOS has raised expectations that the eldely housing problem will be fixed.  The talking point has to be " Westfield is wrong for the following reasons- BUT instead we will look at Agawam (or some other alternative)."  This should not be a campaign of negatives--anything the BOS is for-then we are opposed --positive solutions are needed.

You are correct and even at 10,830 that's 902.50 per month at 30% is about 270. So we've opened the door to a few more with your numbers. To me this has nothing to do with the Board(except poor planning and knowledge of this particular development). Here's a positive plan of actionl:

1 - Hire a "qualified" Town Planner to deal with these matters.
2 - Select a property that is "available" for this type of development, as in many other cities and towns they take existing buildings and rehab them. (was this research ever done here?)
3 - Develop a model of the property that would be ideal for the project. (obviously the vision was foggy at best)
4 - Lay out specific guidelines for rental cost. (based on the level of senior income)
5 - Develop a RPF that states our requirments for the project. (including the rents to be charged based on 4 above)
6 - Put the RPF out to bid.
7 - Once all bids are in select the best developer for the project (based on the RFP)
8 - Move forward with the development.

I could go into each of these and detail how none of them were followed. The circus we witnessed last Tuesday night is all the proof you need watch the tape.

So if you want to blame someone for the fiasco called Westfield, blame the folks that planned it. They are now trying to jam it down the throats of the citizens at the last minute, and in the end we the people will end up footing the bill.

Sorry I am not in favor of that.
Steve

The part that really has me riled up over this is they have known these flaws from the beginning, and now are publicly stating that anyone opposed to this particular plan is against seniors and depriving them of a place to live.

This is absolute BS by them and they should be ashamed of themselves!!!!

Again they knew what they were doing from the beginning, pick a controversial site, do no planning, spend a bunch of money, then guilt the citizens to a yes vote. They had K&P do lengthy research on the Title and were very dissapointed that this had to come before Town Meeting for a 2/3 vote.

Thank God for the consultant or they would have already signed the agreements with the developer.

Just examine the issue of Assisted Living, that was the cornerstone of Bruce's plan, and again I support Assisted Living for those that can afford it. They get one developer who put's it in as an option. That was not in the RFP. Now they seemed confused over whether the Assisted Living should stay or go. I mean I have the recording if Ham wants to put it up for all to see that would end the conversation.

Now they want to take Fish's response and put that out as the new RFP...what a joke, and they have the nerve to discuss ethics? Like I said I have responded to many RFP's over the years and my responses to the client were covered under a confidentiality agreement so that they could not give our intelletual property and other information to our competitors.

I understand the positive issue, but there has to be some separation from the project and the planners. If they had done all the things above (which we know they did not) the response from the citizens would be different and maybe even supportive.l

That cemetary and the wooded shrub grown area across the street used to belong to my grandfather's brother.

My grandfather was born in P Town and I remeber well the days of our childhood always going down there every weekend.My dad was also born there.

As I got older many of Papa's friends gave their homes to the town and moved into that Nursing Home.

Pup lived on 3 Prince St right at the entrance to the parking lot at the school. He worked in the booth there when he got older and at the church.

He stayed in his home until his passing, he passed one night in the winter, he went out to break up the ice in the bird bath and had a heart attack.

The memories you have brought back by your post about those days are like they happened yesterday.

They lived a simple life, up until his death Uncle George lived in a little farmhouse across from the cemetary. The town finally forced him to put in electricity on the farm. He.put in one light socket with a bulb in a closet.

Thanks again for stirring up the memories!!!


Steve

Amen to that. I remember swimming down at the warf and we used to yell up at the tourist to toss change in the water and we would go under water to find the money. Made a few dollars doing that, with my brothers then our parents would take us over to the penny candy store where we would spend it.(And back then you could buy the candy for a penny.

Ah the smell of the malasadas and breads cooking at the Portuguese Bakery.

I could go on for days!!!

GREAT STUFF!!!

DAN I JUST READ IT he really didnt answer the first question asked of him..... ill do some digging.. before friday