S HAMROCK ITS NOT WHO WE SHOULD GIVE THE MONEY TO ,ITS WHOO WILL DO A BETTER JOB OF RASING THE MONEY AND SPENDING THE MOMEY,AND THE FREINDS HAVE A GOOD TRACK RECORD IN THIS CASE ,SHAMROCK GIVE YOUR MONEY TO THE TOWN OR THE FREIDS ITS YOUR CHOICE ,I BELEAV THAT WITH THE TOWN THEY WILL SUBTRACT MONEY GIVEN FROM WHAT THAY GIVE BUT IN THE CASE OF THE FREINDS THIS WILL BE EXTRA HELP FOR THE LIBRARY,ALSO THIS WAS NOT A PROBLEM BEFORE WHEN WE HAD GOOD SELECTMA N  AND NOT  THESE CLOWNS.

I agree with you whole heartily Mature...you Mature thing you...I wasn't being facetious...I meant to answer the questions that will only support the Friends position, not detract from it.
The mole that wrote is asking the questions the troll was deleted from the Library Face book for.
Ask away,...answer away.
The truth shall prevail.
I hope you and the family are well, Mature...you old coot!

As a resident of Wareham and a user of the library, I will take first crack at answering Shamrock's questions civilly.  I would also like the history of how our library became so vilified within the community, but that will involve personal opinions, not facts, so for now, here are a few facts that I know (anyone please correct me if I am wrong!):

The land and building of the WFL are owned by the Town of Wareham.  The staff are town employees and are paid by town checks.  The town currently budgets less than $300,000 dollars ($296,450?) for operating and maintaining a 20,000 square foot building, for employees salaries, for maintaining computers and online access for the general public, and for purchasing books, subscriptions and other materials and programs.   
I think we are down to 5 or 6 employees, which is severely understaffed for a building that size trying to stay open the state mandated 40 hours.

The town is responsible for funding the library.

The Friends of the Wareham Free Library, Inc. was incorporated in 1976 as a non-profit organization whose purpose is to support the WFL. 

I will let Nora or someone else address the relationship between the Friends and the Wareham Library Foundation, and the history of giving of these two organizations.

Well said Mature.
When the libraries were independent of Town government, they had the flexibility to spend money based on the expertise, knowledge, education and competence of the Library Directors.
The Library Trustees were all supporters of the libraries, and were well educated and well versed in their operations.
The Town took over...and just like when government takes over anything...it went to hell in a hand basket.
I still don't believe that is a lost cause to try to get the libraries back under private control.
I think that the government has violated the last agreement and has ignored the final judgement of the Court and therefor has essentially washed its' hands of the matter.
Until this weekend...with a goal of 2000 fans of the Library a possibility, I am only waiting for the other "shoe to fall" and see how the BOS react to the criticism generated by the troll.
Whatever vicious thing they attempt, will only add to your goal of getting them out of the business. They will be proven to be ignorant and uneducated and not worthy of controlling and running a library.
Money donated to the Friends at least will be used for worthwhile purposes.
Money given to the Town will go to K&P.
In my opinion, of course.

Wag....I agree with you 100%...but, when I was young I was a sceptic.
The older I got I started to become more cynical.
Now...I am a full blooded cynic!
I wish I could believe that what you posted would come true, but, not just with this BOS, but for some to come, it may not be possible.
The damage this BOS has done may be irreparable to continue a flourishing, healthy, well funded library system through the Town government.
Just my opinion.

Shamrock,
Just a couple questions, if you don't mind

1. Are you a resident of Wareham?

2. Do you utilize the library?



Thank you in advance for your answers.

Larry, please forgive me for not wanting to get too personal here, especally in light of the fact that the very first response to my post was met with an unprovoked personal insult.

But in case it wasn't obvious, the answer to your questions are yes I am a resident and yes I use the library quite a bit.  If you have anything to contribute to the discussion, I look forward to it.

"if you have anything to contribute to the discussion, I look forward to it."
Uhhh....
How about ending it by saying, "you tool."
Or: "Oh my head!"
Or: If it wasn't so sad it would be funny."

Moles, trolls, punks, drunks. snakes, cockroaches, etc., etc., all over the place.

Do you believe that this person answered Larry's questions honestly?

Are you a resident of Wareham?

"Uh...yes."

Do you go to the Library?

"Yes...all the time."


What the answers really are:


Are you a resident of Wareham?

"No, but I live close by and I am interested in what happens to Wareham because I used to have an office there...before I moved it."

Do you go to the Library?

"Yes, but mostly to search for a mysterious ledger of names of evil people that ripped off the people of Wareham.
Oh, yeah, I also go when they serve free donuts and coffee. Especially if it is cold."

PLEASE!
Common...need I say much more?

Damn shame to have to say goodbye to such a wonderful name like Shamrock.

danoconnell wrote:

Common...need I say much more?

Just an opinion, the average every-day information seeker probably wouldn't be concerned with the  501c3 Non-profit jargon at the end of the first post (or however it was stated).

But what the hell do I know.

Last edited by commonsense (2010-01-26 23:32:54)

Shamrock, the questions you asked have all been answered on this site many times. You said you are a frequent user of the library, so your basic questions about who owns the library seem odd to me and could and would be easily answered by the helpful staff. From there, you make some inaccurate statements about 501(c)(3)s which is quite a leap. So, I'm a bit confused as to exactly what you are looking for.

You can use the search tab on this site to find answers to the public/private issue, the truth about Spinney, the details of the litigation, and evidence that refutes the recent embezzlement allegations and much more. Search my name and then look for the threads that I began. That should answer most of your questions.

I would be happy, however, to answer your questions in person if you would prefer. Please send me a personal message, give me your real name, and we can set up a meeting, say at Borders, for a cup of coffee (on me!) and you can ask me anything you want.

Or, are you just itching to find the answers to these burning issues?

Yes Pspan.  Just trying to understand, and the folks who post here seem to be authorities on the matter.

I would be happy, however, to answer your questions in person if you would prefer. Please send me a personal message, give me your real name, and we can set up a meeting, say at Borders, for a cup of coffee (on me!) and you can ask me anything you want.

Nora, don't be surprised if I take you up on that offer.  I'll bring the Baileys :-)

But until then please be sure to address these " inaccurate statements about 501(c)(3)s" that you think I've made.

It is important that we get this right.

Thanks,
Shamrock

Shamrock
I went back and searched this site to try to find the info for you. Here it is..

The library trustees incorporated in 1891 and served the town of Wareham in private library buildings until the town built the new building in 1991. The last private building was the Tobey library building on High Street.  According the the MA Constitution, Amendment XLVI states that private libraries can be supported by money from any city or town but that does not make it a public library in the sense that it is the town's library.   The Attorney General ruled something similar as early as 1921 and that can be found in MGL, I believe chapters 40 and 140.  So, it is perfectly legal and in a state as old as ours, where most libraries were originally private, you can see how this evolved. IN FACT, THE LIBRARY COMMISSIONERS STATE THAT MORE THAN 70 LIBRARIES IN MA TODAY ARE PUBLIC/PRIVATE HYBRIDS. There are 370 public libraries in the Commonwealth.

So, the trustees for the library at Tobey were private and held a trust fund. Around the late 1970s, the town began taking over some of the library's expenses including salaries, but as you can see from above, that did not make it a town library and the trustees were self-appointing. In Oct. 1977, town meeting voted to appoint a library transition committee because the trustees were considering turning their trust over to the town and becoming fully public. (For you history buffs, the committee consisted of Helen Lincoln, Robert Braman, Robert Kiernan, Robert Lucey, Jane Beaton, Janice Maynard and Michael Hynes.)  Representative Decas even prepared the legislation that was needed for such a turn over. (We have all these documents including minutes from trustee meetings, legislation draft, and town meeting records.)

Much research was done by this transition committee and the lawyer that town meeting appropriated $2500 to hire, instructed the trustees to change their method of self-appointment to being appointed by the Appointing Authority (Town Moderator, Chair of the BoS, and Chair of Trustees). This was so that when the legislation passed, the appointment process would already be in place. The trustee by-laws were changed and the town agreed to appoint the future trustees.

In 1981, the trustees finally decided NOT to transfer its trust and remained a private entity. SO THE TRUSTEES IN WAREHAM HAVE ALWAYS HELD A PRIVATE TRUST. They were, however, appointed by the town since 1977 and follow all the rules and regulations in the MGL Ch. 78 regarding trustees and open meeting laws etc.  The public part is in doing their duty as a town board in its role in setting policy etc. for the library.

During the litigation, the judge asked the trustees what wills that the trustees received bequests from were written AFTER the town owned library opened in 1991. Only one was written for $13,000 after 1991. ALL OF THE OTHER MONEY IN THE TRUST WAS FROM WILLS WRITTEN PRIOR TO 1991.  Even so, the trustees generously agreed to give $50,000 of its trust to the town to create a new trust fund for the new trustees to be appointed. This was part of the library litigation settlement. The trustees also agreed to dissolve the 1891 corporation.

Of course, all of this information including copies of the wills were given to the lawyers at the onset of the case.  The final ruling was that the TRUSTEES HAD EVERY RIGHT TO GIFT THEIR FUNDS TO THE LEGALLY CREATED LIBRARY FOUNDATION since they were a private corporation holding monies in a private trust. The Foundation kept the major portion of its funds. 

Today in Massachusetts, 542 trustees are APPOINTED. 1500 are ELECTED and 455 are SELF-PERPETUATING.  Usually, but not always, the self-perpetuating trustees are private even if they serve a public library.
Online

~~~~~~~~~~
I am not the expert here, Nora is, and I would ask you to call her or meet with her. She is one very nice lady and as a professor, has the abilitly to explain things in a clear and understandable way. After all, her profession is teaching students.

I would anticipate that the WFL 501-C-3  which you are trying to understand was the "original"  non-profit organization that was established when the library was on High Street and was a private library. Nora, am I correct? This non-profit was never dissolved and has continued to be in existence. And therein may be where everyone gets confused.  Again, Nora is the person to ask, but I think I read that this particular 501-C-3 will be dissolved as part of the settlement agreement. Nora, is that correct?  If I'm correct, then to answer your question, yes it is (was) a private organization and had nothing to do with the town.

Maybe we can liken it to the Brownie's and the Girl Scouts. Both belong to the Plymouth Council, have separate treasury, separate activities and act independently.  Different groups, go in different directions, same philosophy and goals, both overseen by the same Council.

Nora, If I'm wrong, please correct. Thanks.

Very well written, Mature...
As a matter of fact, I was a Selectman in 1977 and I fought against the Town interfering with the library business. Jane Beaton (I'll talk about her some time...she was a wonderful woman) was our (BOS) representative on the study committee.
She wasn't too crazy abut it either, and I don't believe Mrs. Lincoln was in favor.
Things must have changed after I left in 1978, because the libraries were still independent of Town control then.
Thank for the history lesson Mature...It's nice being as old as you and still using your mind so well!!! :) 


Edited for spelling...

Last edited by danoconnell (2010-01-27 20:31:20)

Geez, Dan, now you're pushing the mind.
In 1985 a group called Citizens for Better Government ( I honestly don't remember who was involved) initiated a re call petition to unseat the Board of Selectmen, whom they accused of being "arrogant, unresponsive and abusive to other boards and residents, playing close to the vest and not playing by the rules, ignored citizens concerns, and meddled in the Board of Appeals business" according to a news clipping I dug out of the filing cabinet.
Selectmen at the time were Phyllis McGraw, Clayton Fuller, Lionel Lacasse, John kelenosy, and Lisio Mestieri.
Phyllis McGraw was able to keep her position on the Board, but only by a very narrow margin. Elected to serve were Donald Carlson, Sarah Woods, Thomas McCluskey, and Judy Montminy (now Whiteside). Mr. Carlson's platform for running was that the BOS were not open enough to the public in how they conducted town business.
The actual recall severely divided the town and left many friends and neighbors angry at one another for either participating or not participating in the recall effort. There was no middle ground, either you were for it or against it and everyone had their mind made up long before heading to the polls. Two of the recalled Selectmen are still bitter today.

Thank you, Mature...I never got the full story, but, after your e-mail to me I think I know why now.
Thanks again.

Mature...you mentioned Lisio Mestieri...he was an elected Assessor when I was a Selectman. He, Maitland Harlow and Ray Cardoza's wife, Althea.
So...he left as an Assessor and became a Selectman?
What about Leo LaCasse? Is he still around and in politics?
Didn't Phyllis McGraw marry Charlie Decas?
I am way behind I think...but..I appreciate you keeping me and everyone else up to date.
Thank you.

With all the historical perspective, I have some simple answers to a few of your questions:

Who owns the land and building for the library? WE do. Our tax dollars (state and local) paid for the PUBLIC building. As taxpayers, we employ the people that manage and work in the building. We elected the current leadership, who  show a great amount of disdain for this prized institution through their appointments and hires (new trustees and interim library director). The Friends, who have raised a great deal of money to support our library have been villified and shown no respect and they still continue to support the library. Why? The answer is simple, they believe in what the library stands for.

We should embrace their efforts, not question their intent.

Where did shamrock go?

It's nice to get answers from REAL people who have REAL answers, isn't it?
Especially people who KNOW what they are talking about.