What attacks?  We've been encouraging him to go tell his story to the IRS or the FBI or whichever law enforcement organization that he trusts all day long.

Last edited by Hamatron5000 (2009-11-09 14:47:54)

See, this is the type of questionable response that continues to baffle me. I would sit here for hours and debate you, but you have already started with the "LOOK AT ME, DON'T ATTACK ME" mantra I've seen from so many of the pseudo supporters of this group of Selectmen. I would disagree with you on one point for sure, the people responsbile for the current mess in Wareham are the Selectmen and those who support them. I haven't written one check or made one POOR decision in the process of governing this town. You may not like the approach some of the bloggers take, but that doesn't mean they aren't right. If you want to help this town, then encourage the Selectmen and Moderator to resign.

If you want to sit on your hands and wait while the latest in a long line of BS is being poured on this town by Bobo the Fabricator, that is your choice. I have seen enough of his "predictions" and "sources" to form an opinion. He is trying to sell papers, that is all it is.

Look, if you want to sit back and watch this town dissolve in the poor management and lack of fiscal responsiblity, enjoy yourself. I want responsible people in those elected positions and working toward rebuilding this town.

If you feel attacked, I apologize. I don't share your "sit back and wait" routine. It is NOT going to save this town from incompetent elected officials.

Ohhhh, Bobo who doesn't read this site already has a response.  He says he's just a journalist and he's not going to do law enforcement's job for them.

Bobo, are you sure the Feds reads the rag though?  They probably haven't heard about it.  Just to be sure, you really should get up there, speak with them and tell them to get to work on it.  Don't worry, if you're not a goddamn liar then they won't arrest you for lying to an officer of the law.

No Larry, only Sweet Brucey can save us!  The FBI, the IRS, the Attorney General, the U.S. Federal Prosecutor?  What do they know?  Their investigatory skills far pale in comparison to those of Sweet Brucey!

Last edited by Hamatron5000 (2009-11-09 15:27:36)

The Joke of the Day.....hands down.....is that guy calling himself "Independent Voice".........All "goodie goodie two shoes" chatter   ...and then he slips a stilletto under your ribs with his  sneaky," What if it's true?" .  THAT'S what his post was all about....keeping the the "scandal" rumors alive.

Larry McDonald wrote:

See, this is the type of questionable response that continues to baffle me. I would sit here for hours and debate you, but you have already started with the "LOOK AT ME, DON'T ATTACK ME" mantra I've seen from so many of the pseudo supporters of this group of Selectmen. I would disagree with you on one point for sure, the people responsbile for the current mess in Wareham are the Selectmen and those who support them. I haven't written one check or made one POOR decision in the process of governing this town. You may not like the approach some of the bloggers take, but that doesn't mean they aren't right. If you want to help this town, then encourage the Selectmen and Moderator to resign.

If you want to sit on your hands and wait while the latest in a long line of BS is being poured on this town by Bobo the Fabricator, that is your choice. I have seen enough of his "predictions" and "sources" to form an opinion. He is trying to sell papers, that is all it is.

Look, if you want to sit back and watch this town dissolve in the poor management and lack of fiscal responsiblity, enjoy yourself. I want responsible people in those elected positions and working toward rebuilding this town.

If you feel attacked, I apologize. I don't share your "sit back and wait" routine. It is NOT going to save this town from incompetent elected officials.

You have chosen to ignore my comments specific to my feelings about Slager and the BOS and then accuse me of being a BOS supporter simply because I expressed an opinion about how BOTH SIDES conduct themselves.

I applaud the fact that you don't want to sit back and wait.  For all its' faults, the town-meeting form of government certainly allows individidual citizens to make a difference.  The bloggers that you refer to and I suppose a group to which we both belong, may have legitimate points about very serious issues but HOW you present an opinion is equally as important as WHAT you are saying.  Otherwise, you are diluting the effectiveness of the point and distracting those you are trying to influence.

For the record, I am NOT a supporter of MOST of the BOS...especially Mr. Savageau.  I think he is a bully and an embarrassment to the town.  Like many of the bloggers, he may have some legitimate points at times but his delivery and approach clouds what might be a legitimate issue.

IndependentVoice wrote:

My point was that noone had asked the question of "What if it is true?"

IV..I think we all thought it (however briefly), except for those directly (allegedly) involved (who I assume knew it was BS immediately)..many of us have seen enough of a pattern with his "journalism" to know there is more underneath his surface. Have you read any of the discussions concerning how he consistently places his accusations in "protected" sections of his blog/paper? What about witholding evidence on the scale he's claiming? Ham's right, "Get your ass to the authorities, yesterday!!" If you don't see his holes, look closer.

"Attacking" people..is that all anyone who disagrees can say about the bloggers here? Gimme a break, we're attacked plenty..and why be so worried about our "presentation" at all? The leadership of our Town and Slager do enough to discredit themselves (which in turn increases our numbers)..and that is what we'll need to finish the job. We'll be okay, don't worry yourself a bit.

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM

Last edited by PShooter (2009-11-09 16:14:46)

"Independent": What if it's true that the world is flat ?  What if it's true that Obama is an alien from outer space?  The question you want to keep alive is just as kooky!   $3 million dollars; 127 people; 10 years of embezzling.....ZERO hard evidence.  Slager is on a mission with this scandal-that-isn't.....He is playing the role of a rodeo  clown whose role  is exactly like  Slager's : Distraction. The clown's job is to  get the bull to pay attention to him so that the thrown rider can escape; Slager's role is to distract us from what we should be doing:  planning for a clean sweep of the BOS in April.   I suspect that there's a bit of rodeo clown in you, also .

IndependentVoice wrote:

I'm sorry that most of you are taking offense to my critizism of your approach but I think you'll find that presentation is important.  Now, if the only purpose of this forum is to create a forum for those on one side of the arguement...then fine....who cares about "presentation".  However, if you are tryng to use this forum as a way to send a message to those for which you are trying to educate about the situation with the BOS or to get people to join your cause; and I suspect that this is the case; then you are clouding what might be legitimate points with cheap and often distasteful personal attacks.

Point taken. But it's up to "the other side" to come and participate and attempt to take an honest look at the course of events that have occurred (and continue).. Anyone who would still support our leader's (not you, IV), or believe's Slager's on a quest for truth, justice and "great journalism" for all, is in for a big disappointment.
Bring the evidence, we'll talk then..

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM

Last edited by PShooter (2009-11-09 17:04:34)

The only reason slager made up that story is because he called for an audit of the library right after the lawsuit ended and no one cared or listened.

In his mind he thinks if I create a huge story, maybe they'll do what I wanted earlier. 

It's not true, if it where he wouldn't say it's not up to me, I'm a journalist. Oh yeah, wasn't it you bobo that caught the kidnapper in rehab? Wasn't it your tip that led to his arrest? More bull.

To independant voice, you, like the bos and bobo really need to stop thinking this site is an organized group meant to set things straight. We are more of independant people that just happen to be on the same page. And some expess it through anger. Oh well. I don't think we're looking for credit or to run the town, we're just exposing the bullshit

I love everyone on this site that is "real"!
Not  moles or trolls!

Davidmeister wrote:

I know how much work is involved in all your updates and believe me, voters are listening.

Thank you, David. I know Swifts Beach listens because they're under year round siege, but I often wonder about the rest of the town.

Judging by election returns, most have clearly turned off the noise altogether and are ignoring their vulnerable investments here.

SLAGER ALWAYS HIDES BEHIND "ANONYMOUS SOURCES" FOR HIS "STORIES"

Dick Wheeler wrote:

Bornof wareham: There has never been a more  heartfelt, eloquent,  wise, and determined  statement made by any of us.   Thank you...and thanks also for giving Bill W another well deserved pat on the back.   I look forward to meeting you.
(Special praise for your final sentence: "The word on the street" is that IV is none other than the person who ran for Mary Jane Pillsbury's  BOS seat on a platform that included "going after the library's  secret money.")

You guys are really unbelievable.  I have pointed out time and time again how I feel about Slager and how I feel about the BOS and each and every time you choose to ignore that fact and go after ANYTHING that isn't 100% in line with your thinking.  I ask the question, "What if it is true?" and disagree with some of the tactics, insults and cheap trash that I see all over this website and all you can do - just as I predicted from the beginning; is attack, attack and attack.

End of the world because I suggest that your approach sucks right?  My point all along is that you don't need to stoop to THEIR level and conduct yourself with an equal level of unprofessionalism and bush league tactics....IT dilutes your cause.  On one hand you are saying that this is a forum for those that think alike to get together and vent and exchange thoughts and not a platform for trying to get others to join your cause and to educate others on what is going on with the BOS.... LIKE I SAID EARILER, if that is the case and that is the purpose of this forum then fine.  However, you "wonder about the rest of the town" and whether or not they are listening.

Sounds to me like you ARE trying to use this site to reach out and to get others to join your cause.  That too is fine but you'll get more to pay attention by tuning down the hateful rhetoric.  Just an opinion....but I've learned how much you respect other opinions around here!!

By the way...  "The word on the street" is that IV is none other than the person who ran for Mary Jane Pillsbury's  BOS seat on a platform that included "going after the library's  secret money." --- THAT IS COMPLETELY WRONG AND COULDN'T BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH

Now you are stooping to Slager's level and "guessing" at who some of the posters are and sounding as paranoid and foolish as he comes across.

Larry McDonald wrote:

Now that you have ranted, care to go back and answer my questions? You make it a habit of avoiding straight forward questions and going after the "easy pickings".

As with any gathering, you are going to get a fair mix of people and personalities. That is what you have here. The common thread is our desire to take this town back from the incompetent management that exists.

So, back to the questions you have yet to answer. Put up or shut up.

Good point...I was actually responding yesterday and had to quit to tend to something.  Look for that post.

Larry McDonald wrote:

IndependentVoice wrote:

I applaud the fact that you don't want to sit back and wait.  For all its' faults, the town-meeting form of government certainly allows individidual citizens to make a difference.  The bloggers that you refer to and I suppose a group to which we both belong, may have legitimate points about very serious issues but HOW you present an opinion is equally as important as WHAT you are saying.  Otherwise, you are diluting the effectiveness of the point and distracting those you are trying to influence.

Another broad statement filled with potholes. Please explain the "faults" of town meeting that cannot be attributed to the person in charge of the meeting, the Town Moderator. Again, your message always contains a caveat and no explanation.

MY RESPONSE:  My personal opinion is that a town meeting form of government has "seen its' day".  Town meeting has evolved into a multi-night event with an extremely small percentage of the population showing up to decide on issues that affect an entire town.  It fosters an enviornment for those supporting one side of an issue to show up in numbers, vote on their issue and then split when the vote takes place.  Is that really what we want?  I'm in favor of a representative type of town government that better suits a town the size of Wareham and better suits them demographics of the town.  There are many, many people in town who work during town meeting hours, elderly who cannot possibly get to town meeting; nevermind sit there through hours and nights of meetings and many, many single parent households who could never be fairly represented at town meeting and others that simply don't have the time this day and age to sit through the entire process.

For the record, I am NOT a supporter of MOST of the BOS...especially Mr. Savageau.  I think he is a bully and an embarrassment to the town.  Like many of the bloggers, he may have some legitimate points at times but his delivery and approach clouds what might be a legitimate issue.

Whew, where do i begin? Exactly which Selectmen do you support? Can you show me a few of his legitimate points that were affected by his delivery?

I'd be in favor of removing Savageau and Eckstrom or demanding their resignation.  I'm not neccessarily in "favor" of the others but don't feel as though they've been as reckless and unprofessional as the others.  As far as Savegeau's "legitimate points"....Well, I've listened to him at times make points regarding the sewer fees and as much as it pains me to look at him and listen to his voice, I've agreed with some of the points he's made.  However, when the subject has been publicly debated, he encounters ANY discussion on the matter as some personal insult to him and his total lack of composure, his "bully" approach and his gesturing lacks the behavior we should expect as an elected official and borders on an abuse of his powers.

Look, you want a nice and softened delivery, then go to a tea party. There are several issues and problems with our local government, most of which can be laid at the feet of the Selectmen. Their poor decisions continue to haunt the town and will until they are removed. When they talk about how this form of government isn't working, what they are really saying is it isn't working for them. Perhaps we need people who want to work WITH the citizens and not just a select few of their friends.

I never said I wanted a "tea party" as you have said above....but public discussions about imporant issues and the decisions that are made as a result of those discussions should be done in a courteous, respectful and professional manner.  Discussions can be heated and still be productive.  Differing opinions can be expressed without personal insults and dramatic antics. 

(my answers to LM's questions are above)

danoconnell wrote:

Moles and trolls everywhere!!

Ahhhhhhh!!!

edit--had to change the pic of the mole to a mole, cuz it was "icky"

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM

Last edited by PShooter (2009-11-10 16:22:58)

danoconnell wrote:

Moles and trolls everywhere!!

What is your point?

Larry McDonald wrote:

I disagree on town meeting. WHile there are some pockets of voters that will not attend, the increased attendance at the last town meeting shows that if you get the word out, people will come. It's a gradual process. So much voter apathy is difficult to overcome. It is happening, but it takes time.

I am surprised you have left Jane Donahue off the list. Her influence is key in the current problems. I will come back with examples, but I have a full plate this morning. Sauvageau, Cronan, and Eckstrom are no brainers, but don't be fooled by Jane's demeanor.


Personally, I have no respect for any of the selectmen. They vote together and scheme together. None is less a problem than the other.

LM - Didn't say I wouldn't VOTE for Donahue -- just that I don't think she deserves to be removed or asked to quit like the other two. 

And on town meeting...I think after a hundred years of town meeting (but at least a hundred right), it is a little too late to implement of "gradual process" of getting more to attend.  I don't think the lack of attendance is due to a lack of disgust with the current state of the BOS.  There is a whole generation of voters that don't even understand the town meeting form of government.  Right or wrong, a 20 or 30 something person has never been taught what that form of government is or how it works.

If you have ever experienced a mayoral system with council members, you can see the difference. Town Meeting allows ANY citizen the right to stand up and speak. If you want to complain about special interests groups, try taking away Town Meeting. Special interests groups grow and prosper in the system the CRC is proposing. If you want to sit here and debate forms of government and what works best, we will do that, but I can honestly say that Town Meeting will work better when we remove the elected officials that have used their political influence to "herd" voters.

Jane Donahue is as guilty as the rest of the Selectmen if not more. Her agenda is not in the best interest of the town, just in her (and family) interest.

I think Dick Wheeler is pissed and I don't blame him. I think I can hold him back, but he is downright crafty and sneaky when you piss him off!

OK Dick....if I came across as "preaching", I apologize.  I too was venting.  I just see two sides so pissed off at one another that I have had enough.  There is so much to fix in town and obviously there are better uses of time than what I often see.

Frankly, I think the attention --- negative or otherwise -- is something Slager wants; something he NEEDS.  He writes a small town, failing newspaper and holds very little influence.  If anything, he's created a "what will he write next" type of following where most of those reading his stuff  actually hate him.  What does he care?  Like him, hate him...we still read and THAT is the shame of it.

I never told you to stop complaining -- that is your right as a citizen of the community and it is not any of my business to tell you to stop.  I do have empathy.  As I've said countless times now, I too dislike what is going on; whether it be the thousands spent on constant litigation or the BOS trying to discredit the police department or the general lack of respect for the needs of the school system or the inability to bring any type of stabilty to the TA position or the absurd claim that Wareham doesn't need a full time Harbor Master or the lack of any type of vision or planning for the future of Wareham or what seems to be constant issues dealing with the lack of transparancy with the BOS (missing meeting notes, questionable executive sessions, etc).  I agree with you Dick.

However, and I know some of us have been debating the effectiveness of a town meeting form of local government, but it is this very form of government that allows the citizens to participate in such a direct and open way.  As a result, and in my opinion, that is ALL the more reason to present your concerns without personal attacks.  It simply blurs what are great points and distracts the listener.  That is my point and when I see both sides participating in such attacks over and over and battling over each and every issue, it becomes frustrating. 

I'm sorry that you and your wife have had to go through this in such a public way.  I don't pretend to know how that must feel.  However, and I'm sure you'll agree, I don't need "skin in the game" to maintain my right to form my own opinion and to defend that opinion.

This isn't about two sides. This is about the bigger picture. We present evidence of poor fiscal management, unprofessional behavior, and a clearly destructive agenda. There are several things you have not heard on here, but have happened behind the scenes that support our beliefs! How is that we should be civil to the people who are destroying our town? Do you think civil discourse will work for the "other" side? It hasn't so far. I can personally say I haven't seen an ounce of civil tone from our Selectmen when they have been approached. that is the "other side" I am talking about. if you are referring to Ellen Begley and the MWF group, please understand that we know her history and her connection to the Selectmen we are tired of. I don't consider them a legitimate voice FOR the future of wareham.

There are several groups that are starting to work together, but so much of what you DON'T read here goes into the decision process. I have had civil conversation with many people and we don't always agree.

Perhaps later or another time, we can discuss form of government and the stacked deck of the CRC.

Then also address their agenda. Ever heard about the written hit list? If not, you will. Look at the people they have fired and now review how many of those cases have they won :) Look at the less than stellar ITA they have running the town (or at least appearing to run the town) and then look at the candidates they have for the job openings. Do you see the trend here?

It's not just their lack of civility, it is their lack of management skills and personnel skills. Maybe now we can go into some of the decisions they have made (not just personnel and legal) that have backfired and cost the town money.

Seriously, they are atrocious and ruining this town. ALL of them.

Larry McDonald wrote:

Then also address their agenda. Ever heard about the written hit list? If not, you will. Look at the people they have fired and now review how many of those cases have they won :) Look at the less than stellar ITA they have running the town (or at least appearing to run the town) and then look at the candidates they have for the job openings. Do you see the trend here?

It's not just their lack of civility, it is their lack of management skills and personnel skills. Maybe now we can go into some of the decisions they have made (not just personnel and legal) that have backfired and cost the town money.

Seriously, they are atrocious and ruining this town. ALL of them.

Goes without saying

Larry...........I just knew you were a stand up guy when I met you at Town Meeting.  I also respect the opinions expressed by all who post here.  Remember opinions are just that, an individuals own composed thoughts.  I think IV is on the right side.  I was not here as a resident when MJP was at the Library or on the BOS.  I did watch some meetings on cable back then and certainly formed the opinion that she was the "Glue" that held the Town together.  The current BOS is totally out of control and it is like the pot calling the kettle black when they are outraged at the way people behaved at TM.  They only got back 1% of what they have given out to the people of Wareham.

I lurked for months here not really being able to guess who the players are (still don't know many), but I feel like the people here are truthful, dedicated and mad at what is going on.  I am convinced that we need to spread the word to as many people in Town as we can and get them to join the free thinking on the board ( I try to get the word to someone in Town every day).  We are the people who are the engine that will make change in Wareham.  I am proud to be one of you !!!!!

Special thanks to Bill W. for providing this site...............

Last edited by Quahog (2009-11-10 17:19:50)

I just read the "second" interview.
Uhmm...let's see....how to sum up what I feel...uhmmm...IV I apologize:
BULLSHIT!!

Let this thing take its course and see where it leads and debunk as it goes on.  Right now Bobo has managed to put out a smoke screen on all of the other issues that are totally destroying this town.  Be vigilant, in less than 15 minutes the greatest show under the bigtop begins.

I never rec'd my agenda WTF!!!

Pride your right..TA to be finalized?? Library "dude" situation..an ugly man with a black heart's attempt to place decided Articles on the ballot!! On and on.

The seriousness of the latest "Bobo Allegations" will play out in time. Let's not get distracted, and I think all of us know that. Let's get that coat drive done! We need to suggest a drop off and have people there to receive and distribute accordingly. The board should be making moves toward alternatives to Westfield, and they should have started that the first chance they had after TM..find alternatives now, stop wasting time and money!

And...they are trying to discredit TM in an effort to justify a change to a Mayoral form of Gov't..Intimidation, incivility, what else have they accused the evil citizens who dare vote against them?? I know there's more. Beat 'em at the ballot box, and watch their every move along the way. They've earned that.

P-SPAN
TAKEBACKWAREHAM

Last edited by PShooter (2009-11-10 19:06:14)

Dan; "My guys" and "Your guys" were tight...So , guess what?  .....Being males,  we razzed the hell out of each other, but the respect was mutual and honest, and I almost feel like an honarary 'Jar Head".... In the photo of  the "Gyerenes "  at your birthday party, I'm the one  out of uniform  (Hawaiian shirt) wearing flippers!... Hip-hip-bleeping -hooray!!

Last edited by Dick Wheeler (2009-11-10 20:12:50)

Well...I don't know if we've come the full 180 degrees but at least we all agree for the most part on the main issues.  The important thing to recognize here is that while I don't always agree with the approach, there is no denying the passion and dedication that exists toward getting this town on the right track.

And Dan...suspicious of what?  Yes, there may be times that I disagree with something that I read on here or something that I disagree with you on pertaining to a particular issue in town but having differences shouldn't by itself cause suspiciousness.  I mean, really, what agenda could I possibly have?  What do I have to gain? 

I'm an interested citizen and care what is going on in town.  I have NO connection to anyone or anything that would influence my thinking one way or the other or "blind" me because of a predermined bias.  Sure, I have formed opinions but those are based on educating myself, observing what is going on in town and trying to take note of what works and what doesn't work.  I've agreed with elected BOS individuals that I don't think too highly of and would never vote for and I've also disagreed with them on many things.  THAT doesn't make me suspicious it makes me my own person...and trust me...I've been wrong about an issue I've stood behind or a person I've voted for plenty.

danoconnell wrote:

Sorry, IV...we have had a lot of moles on this site.
It takes time to trust.
Be patient, it will come.

No problem.  But who cares about moles??  I mean, this is a public website and anyone with a computer and an internet access can get on here right?  By definition, a free public website can't really have "moles"...frauds yes but not moles.  If someone is pretending to me someone they are not for the purpose of getting a rise out of you, as long as you stay on message...who cares? 

Your position is clear and well known.  Is something some "mole" says going to change that position or expose something you are hiding?  No...of course not.  From where I sit, strong and honest opinions are stated here and while I don't always agree with the rhetoric, noone can say you are hiding anything.

I look forward to seeing you there Pink.